Perfect Colour balance between Digi-Beta & DVCAM/MiniDV - impossible?

[vfok]

I'm working for a client who knows jack about the tecnical nitty-gritty of video productions. To save money for a two-camera setup, they want to shoot A roll on Digital Beta and B roll on DVCAM/Mini-DVD on a Sony DSR-PD150P.

Now I know as a fact that these two formats colour differently - Digi-Beta tends to looks yellowish/goldish(?) while DVCAM/MiniDV picks up more on the red. The only thing I can suggest to make footages shot in the two formats looks similar is to colour-correct in post, but there's so much one can do.

Even worse now they're asking if things like can be done DURING filming to make DVCAM looks like Digi-Beta or vice versa, like some colour-balancing tricks.

Any expert opinions to convince my client that they're day-dreaming? Buzz words and jargons are a bonus. ;)

Much appreciated.

[shilby]

Due to DV 4:1:1 colour sampling I have found that colour correcting and chroma keying DV can be challenging so you may have to tweak the Digi Beta footage to suit the DV. Mind you, colour correcting is an art form unto itself, and I admit not one of my strong points. However both AVID XPRESS DV and Final Cut Pro both have very capable CC tools.
As far as colour correction during the shoot, using a CCU will make life easier but if the client is trying to save money then this is just added cost, and so is colour correction in post. If the client is uptight about colour match AND cost, just shoot 2 x digibeta or 2 x DV. Dollars saved up front usually mean dollars spent later.

Best of Luck
WaZ.

[Neil Ryan]

" To save money ..."
Have they calculated the cost to solve the problems created by trying to save money!?!

"...Buzz words and jargons are a bonus."
Try these:
Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face

Experience - the best teacher of them all - means that WaZ is spot on the money: "If the client is uptight about colour match AND cost, just shoot 2 x digibeta or 2 x DV."

Reagrds,
Neil
(Graduated with First Class Honours in Cynicism 101)

[Daz]

Mind you, just because the 2 cameras don't look exactly the same doesn't mean you can't cut them together. In documentary interviews, I get quite a lot of DV second cam stuff and sometimes it's quite an effective technique to make it look worse than the main camera, to accentuate the difference between the two. This particularly works if the 2nd shot is radically different in angle and shot size. Often it's very wobbly as well, which helps!

This only works where both cameras are pointed at the same subject. Doesn't really work for two people talking to each other.

daz

[rachelw]

I think it's great that you were consulted BEFORE the shoot rather than after - so many clients just go out, make a mess, and expect you to pull a rabbit out of your hat (I charge extra for magic tricks). It pays to be able to communicate with your team and resolve these issues before the shoot. However, if your client can't take YOUR word for it that their decisions are going to cause endless problems - make sure you just tell them what the consequences of their decisions are. I'd also have a chat with the cameramen - see how knowledgable they are. If the client is also trying to save money by hiring inexperienced camera operators you are going to wind up with a grading nightmare regardless of format. Interesting framing, too....

As for my input on your specific problem - probably a little too late - Certainly I agree that you should use one format, but also in choosing DV I also must say that if you are needing to grade up DV, the worse it starts out the worse it gets - grading a really bad shot in DV is not easy. Trying to normalize a stinker of a shot, esp. if your hardware isn't up to scratch, will cause a great degradation of image quality, and a sort of noisy image that looks somewhere between 15year old VHS and a bad nightmare. Remember that the amound of data you are starting off with isn't great, and digital manipulation causes this to drop if you push it too far. So you also need to make sure they are aware of the fact that grading tools are for a certain amount of tweaking, but not for making miracles happen.

I hope that the job goes somewhat smoothly.

regards,

r