What do you understand by M&E?

[Crinoid]

We've had a lot of debate around here lately about what should be on an M&E track for a documentary.

In my opinion the M&E track is to enable a foreign broadcaster to re-voice the program.

Therefore, the M&E track should contain NO voice whatsoever except as background, NO Narration, NO sync.

It should contain Music where appropriate, and an Effects/atmos track.

What's your view? Why?

Matthew

[JieMing]

This is how I would do it:

Channel 1: Full Mix Left
Channel 2: Full Mix Right
Channel 3: M&E Left - No narration
Channel 4: M&E Right - No narration

Channels 3 & 4 would contain interview grabs etc. which could then be brought down in level for translation overlay.

Ben.

[Crinoid]

Channel 1: Full Mix Left
Channel 2: Full Mix Right
Channel 3: M&E Left - No narration
Channel 4: M&E Right - No narration

Yes well that's the usual track config.


Channels 3 & 4 would contain interview grabs etc. which could then be brought down in level for translation overlay.

But ... what would you do about non-sync grabs? What about "Thought tracks"? Character voices?

Bear in mind that a foreign broadcaster who doesn't want to subtitle a film for broadcast will still have to do so for any dialogue left in the M&E track.

[Webby]

At SBS we're dealing with material from suppliers with very different capacities and from many cultures and language groups. Naturally we wish to make their products understandable to our (majority) English-speaking audience but we do try maintain the enjoyment of these programs for those who know the original language. Thus our policy is to subtitle rather than translate in V/O whenever possible. I'm sure subtitling costs more and is slower than the V/O alternative but I've never seen figures on this.

If an alternative sound mix is available it is usually labelled "M&E" when the program arrives from our London dubbing house. Sometimes a strictly MUSIC & EFFECTS mix is indeed what we find on those tracks and that's not very useful when re-versioning a doco and so a process of negotiation begins with the filmakers via the distributor. Mostly (because we buy a lot of product from English producers) what we find on those tracks is, what I think is best termed, an INTERNATIONAL MIX which I will try to define/describe later. Too often we discover that an alternative sound mix was either never made or won’t be available to us (perhaps we’re not paying enough for the program). In the former case we are frequently offered the elements, either sub-mixes or even camera tapes, so that we can attempt to construct the INTERNATIONAL MIX ourselves….and sometimes we accept and succeed….sometimes we decline and go with V/O translation….and sometimes we accept and fail resulting in the airing of a dog’s breakfast hybrid mixture of subtitling and V/O translation.

THE INTERNATIONAL SOUND MIX

I will confine myself to discussing what’s useful in re-versioning a program from other languages to English.

We receive programs from the BBC and CHANNEL 4 suppliers where the intended audience are English speakers and any LOTE (Languages Other Than English) grabs or spoken words have been voiced over. The INTERNATIONAL MIX they supply will usually contain the narrator’s voice (if any) but not the translations. The LOTE dialogue or I/V content is appropriately mixed with effects and music to allow those who understand that language to appreciate the program fully. Such an "INTERNATIONAL MIX" makes it simple for SBS to subtitle the program when we also request "TEXTLESS" vision which is default supplied by most U.K. distributors. We simply add name/place/date supers of our own choosing somewhere in the top two thirds of the screen when subtitling demands it. The British definition of "TEXTLESS", just by the way, leaves the program title and credits in place and most European definitions are the same but using the source nation’s primary language. Generally continental Europe will include head credits more often than the Brits. But I digress.

Our German suppliers tend to delete the German narration from their INTERNATIONAL MIXES and ask us to create a complete English version as part of contra or co-production deals (SBS is one of the most prolific subtitle producers worldwide).

French producers seem to delete their French narration on only about 50% of the INTERNATIONAL MIXES we receive from that quarter. (As a side note I’ll comment that I find the French the most rigorous and careful accommodators of those looking to re-version their programs…they are generally able to supply any combination of elements on request….even English versions of ANIMATED MAPS and DIAGRAMS….very important!!!)

When we receive a program from South America we’re generally in for the "dreaded deading"….there may be Portuguese or Spanish subtitles on screen and no textless or pre-mixed material available at all.

Although it seems less prevalent in what SBS has purchased lately….I urge you to beware of the "CURRENT AFFAIRS SPECIAL" or "FEATURE STORY" sourced from anywhere in the world. These have generally been put together in a rush as part of the weekly turnaround of a regular current affairs flagship. If an INTERNATIONAL MIX is provided at all there’s a good chance it will still contain the "dips" where the V/O TRANSLATION once was. Thus any effects or music will be fighting with the interviewee at about 50 % or the interviewee’s words will have been pressed down towards the noise floor. (Notable exceptions are the BBC "HORIZON" and "NOVA" programs who are very practiced at it.)

[Crinoid]

Thanks for that detailed reply, Webby!

Now I have to think of those countries that DON'T subtitle, like the French or the Spanish.

What would THEY prefer on an M&E track? Pure Music and Effects and Atmos?

Or will they just make do with a "mix minus narration" track? In which case, for many "observational docos" there won't be any change 'cos there's no narration!

How will they avoid subtitling if the program still contains interviewees voices??

[Webby]

If the French & Spanish don't subtitle then surely they add V/O translation. If so then I'd presume they'd want MIX-NARRATION so that as they renarrate they can also lay up different translation voices and then do a single final French/ Spanish mix. N'est pas?

[Crinoid]

Originally posted by webby
I'd presume they'd want MIX-NARRATION so that as they renarrate they can also lay up different translation voices and then do a single final French/ Spanish mix. N'est pas?

Well but what about sync interviews to camera? To lay up new translation voices you'd need a PURE M&E, n'est-ce pas? Or would the english voices in the "Mix minus narration" mix just be dipped and the new ones put on top?

[Webby]

Hmm...left out the "ce"....je suis tres rusty....guess you get plenty of le practisse!

The usual translation mix I encounter lets the interviewee begin the grab at 100% for a three seconds or so then that is dipped to allow the, hopefully distict, voice of the translation reader take over till the end of the grab (including overlaid sections). I have never seen an English doco on or done for French tele....maybe they have other preferences.

[rachelw]

My favourite debacle is when you get a film with Mandarin voices on tr1, Cantonese version on tr2, and m/e that is out of sync with the vision. I just cry into my porridge. Luckily, these days I'm working in English :-)

Although it's standard to provide a version that is 'International Friendly' for renarration, often you'll find that the tape you're stuck with isn't what you expected because you've been sent a version with full mix to all tracks, or some other variant that's just wrong, wrong, wrong. I'd guess it's either a purchasing/distribution problem, or a choice made by the filmmakers. Whether or not that is a valid and educated choice is really an arguable point from project to project.